JavaScript is disabled. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. Also, we'll be happy to correct or delete anything if you point it out to us in the meantime. TSiWRX. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. Fig. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. i have thermolds, and usgi mags and the rest of them work perfectly.. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. Hey, everyone. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. This is one of my pistols. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. Has anyone seen this? We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. I have both just to keep ammo separated. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. These same parts are available from other vendors. I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. One new winner* is announced every week! All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. Why not just ditch the PMags? Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. Could the magazine be too low? /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). My solution is to raise the bottom rear edge of the mag well by approximately 1mm to 1.5mm. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. Fig. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). All Rights Reserved. The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. JavaScript is disabled. I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. How is it though that my. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. Checking mine now! Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! That should fix it. Mar 3, 2022. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. You must log in or register to reply here. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Here's a photo showing the mags. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 "And here remain with your uncertainty! It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. Pmags have worked fine in the past. Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. Fig. Clear editor. and our Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. I don't and I didn't . honest. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. Re: Magpul PMag issues. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. You are using an out of date browser. Some rifles are just finicky. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. I'll have to get measurements later. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. Your link has been automatically embedded. It's a whole lot of details. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. Paste as plain text instead, What changed? A friend with a lower that started at 80% also had the same problem as I do and fixed his by shifting his mag catch up 0.050". Excellent work with the pics and details. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. Upload or insert images from URL. 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. The main concern is the failure to feed. and might have several still in the packaging. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. Measure the depth of the hole, first. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. Next up is damage to the SCAR. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. Similar occurences? A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. Mick 1 month later. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. Your previous content has been restored. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. Suggestions? Privacy Policy. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but I'd first like to solve the feed problem. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. . Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. By Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. check out the. No need to answer that last question. The Fix: 1.) Coil bind on the spring? The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. The ones I used were my friends and I checked the bolt catch before I shot. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. I'll try and grab my camera. JavaScript is disabled. You cannot paste images directly. Just did this, no difference. My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. It did. The issue is with bolt lock back. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Is it the length of the plunger? Depth of the hole? I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. Note the different rear opening. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. I can manually push the bolt catch tab in to raise the catch higher. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. A new one can be sent upon request. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. Could i just have faulty mags? Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. It was initially 0.323 deep. I'd delete it if I could. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. (not my lower, but my exact problem!) After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. :??? I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. edit: i just got them. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". Scan this QR code to download the app now. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Professional. Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. Think it could be magazine springs? New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. #5. While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. Crap! Pics to follow. We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. View attachment 25288. Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? I deepened the hole to 0.480. I deepened the hole to 0.480. I inspected my mags after I received my order and that's when I saw the bolt catch was up and went wtf face palm*. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. Display as a link instead, Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Because both symptoms exist, it seems that the components within each receiver may be too far from each other which leads me to suspect that the interface between the upper or lower is too thick. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. It was initially 0.323 deep. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. I started construction with the lower at 80%. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. All Rights Reserved. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! Well, there are several reasons for this. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. For more information, please see our Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. I suspect yours will be higher than mine. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. You can post now and register later. Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate One new winner* is announced every week! These two pics right here, and the height difference. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. So far so good. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. This is. Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do.
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